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Veteran
Posts: 233
 
| very well put. but dont forget about the idea of a cheap helicopter not requireing a liscense to fly being developed so that people can put it together in their garage. imagine what if sirkorsky would have thought it could be done and taken to market. nothing new would ever be made if people always thought "if no one else can do it with all of there money and people, you cant either". i think of the inventor of the intermittent windshield wipers. anyways, your point is valid. |
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Australasian Distributor.
MXE 1043
ZK-IXE
Web Master
Posts: 637
Location: Auckland, New Zealand | Hi Guys,
The electronic governor that Tom Curl had designed weighs 1.9lb which includes the wiring, servo , control module. It is called the M6000 governor. I have had on in my ship for the last 18.5 hours. It has never missed a beat.
I fly with it on every flight and it even copes with a large needle split in a quickstop, It also copes with an auto and powered recovery with less than a 100 engine RPM drop as I pull collective after an aggressive flare. I love it. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| that definatly sounds like the way to go. i am just saying it can be done mechanicaly. that way it can never fail and it should never droop the rotor. it should always lead the rotor. again, your way is the way to go, but for it to detect the need for more fuel, the rotor must droop. this is only for discussion purposes. i would love to be proven right or wrong. but to be sent to the gallows for even mentioning it does not advance the discussion. physics state that this must work. in math you would call it a true. so lets keep spitting out ideas of why it can and cant work. call it a mental exercise. |
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Member
Posts: 30
Location: Warkworth, NZ | Hey HAWK, the designers of the Titanic said it could never sink... Anything that is manmade, mechanical, electrical etc... can and will fail. I understand where you are coming from though, and yes the electric type governor would rely on the fact that the RPM is dropping to add fuel, however, with the sophisticated electronics these days, it is the smallest drop, and would have no significant effect on rotor rpm. In fact, I would be suprised if us pilots would be able to be so accurate with our throttle control, I know I for one am not as good as that governor that Tom built. I fly the 300CBi, no governor and they say there is a correlator in there, but certainly does't seem like it!
I have seen that governor on Blair's helicopter working, and I must say, it does work well! I was quite impressed when watching a quickstop with a needle split (A true quickstop according to my instructor!) it didn't seem to drag down at all on recovery, just sat there with the engine purring along ready for more. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| when useing electronic controller, you can prevent the slightest droop by adding a collective position/rate sensor. this way the contoler can add fuel when the power is requested, not when the rotor shows that power has been requested. |
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New user
Posts: 1
| dear mr. hawk,
you sure know a lot about helicopters. i hope when i grow up i can become a great helicopter pilot just like you.
my dad knows about helicopters so i showed him what you wrote and he says he agrees with you. he thinks mechanical governors are much better than the electric kind. he says that the helicopter he flew in had a governor that knew what was going to happen even before it happened so nothing ever went wrong. i hope i have a helicopter like that someday.
your friend,
mango |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| my oh my, how have i made so many mad for bringing up. if we just had a list of things that should be brought up. maybe a do not offend topic list. |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 364
Location: Bakersfield, California | Hawk,
I don't think anyone is mad. I think you can expect a little bit heated debate when you are talking to a bunch of guys that are pretty knowledgeable about helicopters. It's a good thing I know VERY little about these things or I would be deep in this debate as well.
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 165
Location: Melbourne, FL | Hi Hawk,
I'm with Mark, any sort of discussion related to helicopters is good.
Anything that provokes us to think about how things are done, how they could be done, improvements etc. is good.
I believe the vast majority of folks that participate in the forums are great and are willing to discuss their views (whether they agree or disagree) in a mature, productive manor. That's been my experience as I have monitored the Mosquito forum for the last year of so.
As with any group, there may be a few that get their "nickers in a twist".
I've enjoyed reading through your posts. I'm not saying I understand them, but it gets me thinking.... |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| i am happy that you like my thought provoking posts. i am sorry that some are not that clear. I do try to put thought to thread. once i start, my mind starts going so fast that i cant stop to see what i write. this leads to my poor writeing grammar. i try to show things in the simplest form(variables). thank you again. i hope to see you in trenton.
p.s. please let me know if there is anything that i can try and clear up. i will give it another go!!!
Edited by HAWK IP 12/21/2009 6:19 PM
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Mosquito Owner
MXE1065
Vietnam era Veteran
Posts: 273
Location: Missouri | HAWK IP,
I've always been one to fly under the radar so to speak so I've never been the lead dog but if you've got a good looking bitch (female dog) in front of you, the view can always be quite nice.  Can't wait to meet all you guys in Trenton! Soooooo much fun. Yea baby.
Edited by garyd 12/21/2009 7:30 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| hahaha... thnx buddy |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| Boy oh boy, why do I do this to myself, but here I go anyway. Again, before I start, I believe that the electronic governor is the best solution for this. With that said, a mechanical fix could be applied to this as well, maybe even to assist the governor making less work for it. As for the greasing the aircraft issue, saying it would change fuel required, that would be accounted for when advancing from idle to fly. For the rest, you would need a series of plates stacked on top of each other. Each plate represents a variable that you would want to account for. The bottom plate let’s say would be your collective. The next one above it would be your roll variable. The next, your pitch. The next your yaw. And last your airspeed which could be measured with a small externally mounted spring loaded flat plat drag panel that would connect to this cooralator via lever (for ratio) and cable. The airspeed must be measured to account for the increase in profile drag on the rotor blade as it travels faster through the air since drag is velocity cubed. Each plate will have rollers and would be referenced off of the plate below it. What this is now is a mechanical algorithm or computer. With each input of each variable, will add up with the others or subtracting from the others giving a plotted solution for the fuel needed. I just think that if you identify each variable that requires a change in fuel, then account for it, it should work. Again I am not saying that this should be done to the mosquito. I am saying though that it can be done. I do not think it could be done at less than the 1.9lbs that this governor is. But to say it can’t be done just because it hasn’t is foolhardy. I will try to draw up my mechanical computer on the computer so you can see how it works. This type of system would not require an anticipator (rate sensor) to warn a governor of an impending droop so it could add fuel quickly to prevent large droops like on most large helicopters. Turbines with a compressor shaft and separate power turbines need this because they are slow to spool up to high power demands. A rate sensor is not really required for a small recip helicopter engine I don’t think. Anyway, I was just going through some old posts and came across this one again and found it a little funny. |
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