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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 165
 
Location: Melbourne, FL | Approach Techniques
Hello Mosquito enthusiasts,
I have been working on flight training at Air Orlando for about two months now (about 20 hours) and I've made a lot of progress in many areas.
Hovering is good, ground taxi ok, take off good, entering into autos - good (don't ask about the bottom of the auto yet).
I'm still struggling with basic approaches, I'm getting nervous that I'm never going to get this right.
My flight instructor has taught me the following procedure (condensed here):
- Pick a target
- Picture an imaginary horizontal references line across the windshield
....- over from the string indicator or a spot above or below depending on the desired descent angle
- Slightly before the target reaches the reference line, collective down, right pedal, aft cyclic
- Adjust the collective to keep the target on the reference line
....- If the target drops below the reference, lower collective
....- If the target moves above the line, raise the collective
- Use fore/aft cyclic to control speed
- Look at the ground, we should see a brisk walking pace
....- The higher we are the faster that will be moving for the appearance of a brisk walking pace
....- As we descend, we will be slowing down since as the ground is closer our speed will seem like a faster pace
This all makes sense to me, but I seem to have a hard time visualizing all this.
I think I may take a piece of black tape and put it on the windshield next time to see if that helps.
So far I haven't been able to judge my speed very well by picturing a walking pace on the ground.
On this Mosquito forum there is a vast amount of experience and countless flight hours.
Could some of you please share any tips or tricks that helped you learn how to fly nice, smooth, safe approaches.
Thanks again to all for all the great info gleaned from these forums so far.
Edited by ldiebel 8/14/2009 1:56 PM
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 54
| The best advice I could tell you is that take a day and just do pattern work. set up on your target with tape or imaginary line or as I like to use a bug on the windscreen. bring it in as you feel comfortable. Come to a hover and then break down the approach. Was my approach angle to steep, How was my speed, and was my finishing altitude correct. Just break it down into different stages. Once you get one stage where you like it think about the next and so on. When I started with approaches had a tendancy of making all approaches steep approaches. this Technique helped me Alot. Sure when I finally got my decent rate where I wanted it I blew past my target but once you get an Idea of how far past you are It is easier to adjust starting your decent with a lot of repitition. I hope this helps. Let me know how it goes. |
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Mosquito Owner
MXE1065
Vietnam era Veteran
Posts: 273
Location: Missouri | Lorne,
We all go thru exactly what you're describing. Only thing is, some of us catch on a little sooner than others. Trust me, you're fighting the same aggrevation all of us had to go through. It will all come to you very soon. I can tell just by the way you are describing it. In just the next lesson or two, a switch will flick and you will go "WOW, I GOT IT!" It's just a matter of coordinating the right amount of input from your collective and working your cyclic to control your speed while maintaining your approach angle. Things get a little hairy when you get close to the ground but you will get better at that with practice. It's all about keeping your movements slow and easy.
Gary
Edited by garyd 8/14/2009 8:15 PM
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 87
Location: Connecticut | Don't worry about it. My instructor says I kinda come in fast on final. He covered the airspeed indicator to make me get a feel for the ship. Then while doing auto's I told him to let me fly it and not talk me thru it. I had some of my best auto's just getting my own feel for it. Bottom line is you're doing fine!
Matt |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 206
Location: tallahassee FL | I think your already on the right path and don't even know it. The explanation you gave is text book and your being hard on yourself. If you can make an approach and not kill yourself with 20 hours, your in the average category that most pilots fall in, I don't think your below the mark like u seem to be making it out. A guy with twenty hours may hit the same spot but how he gets there may look totally different. Might nail it the first time, drag it in the next, and come in hot on the third. Its all about site picture memory, just like that muscle memory to hover, and when u get it, which I amagine will be in the next few hours your gonna look back on it and go " why did I make that so hard, thats really easy! remember normal, steep, and shallow approaches are all done basically the same just with different timing. You zero you speed and rate of decent at the bottom in everyone type of approach, just looks a bit different. You will get it. |
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Mosquito Owner
XE3 1042
Posts: 337
| It sure is good to hear I'm not the only bozo that has this problem!
Skeeter |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 364
Location: Bakersfield, California | What are you guys talking about, I NEVER had this problem....all of my flying was perfect form the very first day!! LOL, I am still fighting the same problem. I doesn't seem possible to be able to over-shoot those huge numbers at the end of the runway. I guess practice will make perfect.
Later.
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 165
Location: Melbourne, FL | Thanks for the encouraging words.
I was really hoping for a silver bullet tip that would solve all my approach problems...oh well.
I guess I just need to be patient and keep practicing.
That's what my wife told me too, dang...she's always right....
It is comforting to know that I'm not the only one that struggles with this.
I have a flight tomorrow (weather permitting) and I'm going to try putting a small piece of tape on the windshield to help visualize the line to the target better.
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 551
Location: Uvalde, Texas 78801 | Hey Lorne (is your named really spelled that way?),
Think of it this way, your're the silver bullet. It'll come to you shortly. Just keep going at it, and eventually you won't even be thinking through it, you'll be habitually going through it. BTW, I haven't exactly been there yet myself, so think about all the guys that still have that part to learn, you'll be our cyber instructor then. Have fun, and wear a helmet. |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 281
Location: Southern Oregon USA | Hi Lorne,
Thanks for posting. It's really helpful for people like me who are "quick study" NOT!
For horizontal reference points I find it helpful to fly in mountainous areas with rivers, cliffs, and tall trees.
JUST KIDDING! ... I know, ... no mountains in Florida:-( But there are 2000 foot high radio towers near the Cape!
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Mosquito Dealer
Texas
Posts: 160
Location: Round Rock, Texas | Hey all, I know I am responding to this long after the topic has probably gone cold but I figured I would post a reply to this. Sorry I didn't see it sooner. I will also post this to the general forum. I see some good pointers and tips but I have one very big one to add and I didn't see anything near what I'm going to say in any of the prior replies. This is not a big surprise to me since the technique I am going to describe wasn't even taught to me when I went through flight school. I learned this from a book and as soon as I started using it I was able to make very precise approaches. The earlier replies gave excellent instruction on what to do to maintain a constant approach angle but very little on what exactly to look for on the ground near the point you are trying to precisely to end up terminating your approach. Here's the technique:
Use the "Circle of Action"! The "Circle of Action" is a point on the ground where the aircraft would impact if you did nothing at the bottom of a constant angle approach to arrest the decent. The approach angle and speed don't matter. High, shallow, fast or slow the circle of action is obvious on any and all approaches. The magic is getting the aircraft on the desired approach angle as soon as you start the approach but that is the part that will come with experience and the experience will come much faster if you understand first that you did it wrong and second recognising how to adjust it while you are in the approach.
The instruction that was given on an earlier post about picking a point of reference on the windscreen is OK for doing approaches at an airport, in a sterile environment when the instructor just wants to see you do the same appraoch every time so he can get you to the point of solo. That will not work for you once you start flying into pastures, small fields and backyards to show off your Mosquito to your buddies. The reason it won't work is because that reference on the windscreen was used on the same runway and started at the same distance every time. Sorry, but that's not the real world of flying helicopters. Think about it this way, let's say you want to land on that same runway you were trainging to with your instructor and you wanted to do a normal approach. What is your reference on the windscreen? What is your reference on the ground? At what altitude and what point on the ground will you start this memorized approach? If the approach is the same every time then yes, the references will all be the same every time with little if any deviation.
Now, let's say you want to make a steep approach to the same point on the runway. If you see your intended point of landing line up with your normal reference point on the windscreen you will not be doing a steep approach. You will be doing the same angle that you were doing before. The proper site picture for the steep approach is going to put the intended point of landing (circle of action) much lower in the windscreen. The point here is that a reference on the windscreen is different for every approach unless you use the same approach angle for every approach you ever do and you know that will get old.
Try it this way, make your approach angle whatever you want it to be. The techniques for maintaining the approach angle and proper rate of closure that were mentioned before are 100% correct. Try a steep approach by flying toward your intended point of landing. Can you visualize it out there a half mile in front of you? Yes! But it is only a known point on the ground and not a circle of action yet. Keep flying towards it. Now, you can see it is almost on top of your toes and if you wait any longer you will lose site of it so go ahead and initiate your approach by lowering the collective. Keep the intended point of landing just above your toes by using the collective. You now have established the circle of action and you should be able to see it very clearly. It is the point on the ground that is stationary! Everything around this point seems to be moving but the circle of action is rock steady. If it's not, then you need to make a control correction. It's like aiming a gun. You see the target, your feet (or another reference) is the site on the front of the gun and all you have to do is keep the reference aimed at the target and fly to it. Obviously, as you get closer to the target (circle of action) you need to also reduce your speed and you will see the movement around the target telling you that you are going to fast. Adjust the cyclic accordingly to slow the approach but also be ready to adjust the colective to keep yourself on the constant angle and so on and so on until you are where you want to be on the approach.
I have never blown past or come short of an intended point of landing since I started using this technique. With experience you will be able to use it on any and all approaches and you will even be able to see the circle of action on a turning approach. This technique will also come in very handy during autorotation approaches and will tell you if you are going to make it to the landing point based on your current speed.
I hope this helps some of you guys out. Fly safe! |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| Great find here H60. I would also like to add a little to it. In the blackhawk,we start our traffic pattern approaches at 80kts. I tell the students that this will be a coordinated manuever. When you get your angle, establish a decelrative attitude that will end up at zero knots at your landing point. Try to keep the rate of deceleration a constant all the way to the ground. At the same time i have them enter into a 500 to 700 ft/min rate of descent at the point of entry. You won't feel like you are decending at first. you must look at your verticle speed indicator to verify. these two actions must be coordinated. You now have some constants in.
As you approach your max endurance airspped, or bucket speed, your rotor is becoming more efficient. You will then need to lower the collective some as you approach this speed. If you didnt lower your collective then you could fly yourself into a level contion. Also, as your airspeed slows so will your rate of descent. the 500 to 700 ft/min rate only applies to the entry. Once you reach your max endurance airspeed be ready to start applying collective. (side note- because you are in a deccelerative attitude, your bucket speed is going to be a little lower due to the angle the air is relative to your blades. it may be about 4 knots slower than bucket speed.)
Now you are through your bucket speed. you rotor is now growing more inefficient for each knot you are loseing. This means that you are gong to have to start applying collective to maintain your angle or you would fall through your angle. Keep applying your collective smoothly until you get to your ETL speed. This is where you ar going to make your largest collective adjustment. I can only tell you that in order to maintain your angle, you will have to fly by the seat of your pants to prevent falling through. H60's idea is great for the entire manuever, but here, it is the only visual indicator for you to see to complete the manuever. dont be afraid to let that panel go under the nose. If it is still infront of you after you land, then you never made it to the spot that you were aiming for.
So put your constants in and make miner adjustments from there. Land over the panel, not just befor it. Oh, and have fun!! |
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Mosquito Dealer
Texas
Posts: 160
Location: Round Rock, Texas | HawkIP, I think once again you way over analyze and over explain although what you said this time makes a lot more sense and is easier to understand. An 80 knot approach speed with a 500 fpm rate of decent in the Hawk is going to be a shallow approach angle compared to a Mosquito starting an approach at 1/3 to 1/2 that speed. Also the mass of the Hawk will tend to carry it through and will require much more deceleration planning for the bottom of the approach. The Mosquito stops much easier not that it doesn't require planning but it really stops a lot easier and is much more forgiving than a Hawk. Mosquitos also don't have a vertical speed indicator so all that really matters is establishing the proper angle using the circle of action method and using the controls to stay on the angle. It's really that simple and simplicity is what we need for the audience here. These guys are all here trying to learn how to fly for fun. For most of us getting a personal helicopter and learning to fly it is expensive and the instruction is a big part of that expense but very important for their personal safety. Their safety is important to the continued success of the Mosquito and our community. Many people here give of themselves without compensation to help ensure that idea. I try to fill in the gaps by replying to things I know about that may help these guys get the most out of their dual training session and for the continued understanding for those who are already flying their Mosquitos. I try to stay away from giving complex answers and explanations. I don't care to make everyone here aware of what I know especially in the presence of some of the "real" helicopter pilots who flew "real" helicopters in "real" combat who frequent this site. We are lucky to have them in our community and they, the masters of what we are talking about here are big advocates of simplicity. It's never about showing what you know. It's always about giving what you know to they guys here in a way that is simple to understand. That is also the way I taught when I was teaching in the Hawk. There is no reason to pole vault over mouse turds when you can just step over them. |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 364
Location: Bakersfield, California | Hey Mark,
Your "circle of action" method makes perfect sense to me but my instructor uses the "spot on the windshield" method. I often find myself in a situation with my normal approach angle that I am either having to slow down too much or lower collective too fast to maintain my normal approach. In either situation, my instructor is fast on the trigger to correct me. He never wants to see decent faster than 300fpm. So, I find myself watching my vertical speed indicator almost more than I'm watching my actual intended landing spot. In any case, I find myself either under or over shooting my landing spot. What should I do?? 
Later,
Edited by Mark 2/4/2010 6:29 AM
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Mosquito Dealer
Texas
Posts: 160
Location: Round Rock, Texas | Mark, the instructor is trying to get an acceptable maneuver out of you as measured against the PTS (practical test standard). Basically he knows what an FAA examiner will be looking for on your checkride and is only interested in training you for that standard and that standard only. The circle of action still applies it's just that you are using it in conjunction with the already established aiming point on the windshield which should make it easier since you are applying the technique into the sterile situation of what you are already doing.
It think your problem is that you are not paying attention to the movement around the circle of action. Remember, the center of the circle of action is stationary in the relationship to your aiming point on the windshield. To be more descript, there is an immaginary straight line that extends from your eyes through the aiming point to the center of the circle of action. As long as you hold true to that line there will be no movement of the center of the circle of action but all around it there will be a constantly changing vantage point for everything that you are moving in relation to. You are actually moving in relation to the center of the circle as well but the angle is never changing so you are only getting closer to it and it doesn't change shape (angular vantage point or geometric perspective) but does continually get bigger as you get closer to it. All of the movement around the circle of action is caused by the constantly changing angle as you move in relation to all those points on your linear path to the center of the circle. If the center starts to move then a control input is required to keep it stationary. Think of it as though you and I are driving down a long, flat, straight road in your truck with a stoplight a mile in front of you. The stoplight is the circle of action and you can see this because it stays stationary and all the other objects around it appear to be moving past you or at least away from that center as you close in on it. Your plan is to make a long smooth deceleration ending up at the intersection with a soft stop at the end so you don't spill my coffee beeeotch!!!! You are able to judge this because you are experienced enough to see your apparent rate of closure. When you first started driving you didn't know this and maybe you would come up on the stopping point way too fast and then have to slam on the brakes to stop in time. I know this is two dimensional but the idea applies perfectly to illistrate the point and this is where we now have to tie in the vertical speed indicator to stay within the standard of 300 fpm. We are back in the car heading towards the stoplight at 60 mph when we start to decelerate. Think of 60 mph as the PTS for this stop. You will have to put your foot back on the gas pedal and press in order to get the car to speed back up to 60 mph right! What about if you are now on a steep hill and the car wil coast at greater than 60 mph? Now you have to use the the brakes to keep the deceleration within the standard or below 60 mph. If you use the brakes to slow down just enough to keep the speed below 60 mph then you are going to go through the intersection without stopping. So, you must use the brakes to continually decelerate to the stopping point and you judge this by watching your apparent rate of closure which is established at 60 mph when you started the approach to the intersection. At the starting point, the intersection is far away and as you get closer and closer to it while decelerating the apparent visual rate of speed appears to stay constant. This means that the objects appear to move away from the center at the same rate of speed. You never think of this while doing it, you just do it intuitively because your brain has learned what a proper deceleration looks like and how to control it. If you never slowed from 60 mph the closer you got to the intersection the faster things close to the intersection would appear to move away from the center. So, now let's apply this idea to your approach. You start your approach when the point on the windshield lines up with the intended point on the ground. You initiate the approach by lowering the collective and you lower the collective enough to establish the proper angle (line of the eyes to the landing point). You should immediately see your circle of action once this alignment happens. Then, you need to look at the vertical speed indicator before this decent has time to manifest to greater than 300 fpm and it probably will if you let it go too long. If it is going to exceed 300 fpm (and you know it will) then you must slow down with aft cyclic. The application of aft cyclic is now going to change (shallow) your decent angle and you will need to lower the collective to maintain the angle in relation to the circle of action. This may now render your windshield reference point unusable but that's OK just pickup the new point (that shouldn't be far away) and keep the line constant from your eyes to the circle of action. This is the part that is like being in the car and starting the deceleration going down hill. You don't know how much brake to apply initially but you figure it out pretty quickly to establish the apparent rate of closure you know from experience that you need to stop at the intersection. Once you have established that decelerative rate of closure and how much control input it takes (preload on the brake pedal/amount of aft cyclic) then you just use small inputs to regulate for a constant apparent rate of closure (brake pedal/cyclic). The collective just keeps you on the angle.
So, in a nutshell, when you are at the start point of your approach you are at your highest forward speed for the approach. You always initiate the angle by lowering the collective and you know that you are going to have to decel so you can give a little aft cyclic to get that action started at the same time. Refer to your vertical speed and airspeed indicators while you are establishing your angle. Once you have the angle of decent and vertical speed established with collective and the apparent rate of closure (decreasing airspeed) established with cyclic you should be able to keep your eyes outside and fly the approach all the way down without having to refer to the instruments since you have already passed the highest points of both vertical speed and airspeed. I know this is a lengthy reply but I have tried to keep the content of each sentence simple in explanation and understandable in anology. If you have any more questions call me anytime. Good luck and Fly safe! |
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Mosquito Owner
MXEL 1033
Posts: 668
Location: EAST COAST CENTRAL FLORIDA | What should you do? Call the factory and have them paint your XET again, because you're gonna need a lot more lessons! Eddy PS. GO SAINTS!!! |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 364
Location: Bakersfield, California | Thanks Mark for a very detailed explanation, I will apply that technique the next time I fly. I should solo the next time I see my CFI.
Eddy, no need for comments from the peanut section!!! WHO DAT!!!
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| I think the best way to learn this is to build a mind set about an approach angle. To hold a perfect angle you can think of it like a graph. An approach angle is nothing more than a ratio. If you wanted a super steep approach like say 45 degrees, then on a graph, for every block you moved down, you would move over one. If you wanted a shallow angle you could move down one and over three. This may be a brainer, so why do i bring it up? I would use it to show understanding about adjustments. They are proportional. If you slow down your foward speed, then you must slow down your descent proprtionately. If you changed one without the other then you would have a curve and not a strait line. Not a constant approach angle. I have always wondered why we are always taught about waiting until we notice our apparent rate of closure to then start adjusting our speed. this requires alot of mental math toward the bottom to maintain that angle. I always like puttng in my constants when i enter the manuever. This will set up those constants up front. Then make the smallest inputs to stay on track all of the way down. Take this bit of info and use it if you like. discard it if you dont. I am just puting the info out there so you have that choice. |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 364
Location: Bakersfield, California | Thanks! Any meat and potatoes input from experienced pilots is always helpful and appreciated.
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Mosquito Owner
MXE 1048
Posts: 189
Location: Caloundra QLD Australia | I had a student in my R22 instructing days who had a similar problem. He also had an annoying habit of chewing gum while flying. One flight I said "Give me your gum".
I stuck it to the windscreen, and told him to use it as a reference point. It worked of course.
Or I could have said to him, "Don't worry about it, you'll work it out". That would have worked too.
Or even: Fly like a seagull: they never get flying lessons; but they seem to manage....
Rob |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 111
Location: ------- Surrey, B.C. Canada XE 1022 (20 hrs) | Mark - 2/4/2010 6:27 AM He never wants to see decent faster than 300fpm.
i still would like to get a V.S.I. (in the enigma) some time as its just so hard to tell what your descent rate is. but 4 me i miss the "power" gauge the most its that point when you lose translation. you pull in the power, keep your revs up, and wonder just how much am i pulling? i suppose it feels worse than it is as on your way down the collective is lower than usual so there has to be a fair movement to the high power.
it would be neat to have a gauge that told us how many degrees we were pulling the collective lever. like, does this thing fly with the collective all the way up, or is that going to stall the airfoil such as pulling all the way back on a fixed wing? i realize this is relative to wind conditions. also if attempted i can see the engine may be the limit (wide open throttle and R.P.M. dropping)
i don't think i am anywhere near full up
when i was still flying i was overshooting the mosquito on landings.
al
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| WOW!!! that is a good idea. I have never thought of that. I would have always used the exhaust temp to tell power. Do to the temp is a result of fuel burned which is representitive of energy needed to spin the rotor. It would change with outside temp, but it would still be representitive of torque. Your idea is so much better, and far more simple. Torque is only required to spin the rotor to overcome drag (more accuratly total aerodynamic force). The collective position is a major source of info for where your TAF is at. you would have a few other variables to account for like tail rotor blade TAF and cyclic: forward-aft and left-right. These could very easily be computed useing a mechanical computer. But for the most part, you could use the collective as a rough estimate. I like your idea. The components can be real thin and lite since there isnt any real torque on the components. Yall should really look into exploiting this idea. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| as a side note, when i build my dual engine four seater expiremental heli, to torque match and load share, i am goin to run the power from each engine to the mast via belts. Each engine will have atleast one spring loaded tensioner for its belt. As the engine requires more torque, the belt will get tighter. this will pull the spring loaded tensioner, moveing it position relative to its torque. loosely speaking, I am going to run from one engines tensioner to the other engines throttle. this will pull more throttle on the low powered engine. there is a few more details to this but that is the basic idea. but this way accounts for torque at the engine. It is a true torque reading. |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 165
Location: Melbourne, FL | On the subject of showing power......
I plan to experiment with measuring the absolute throttle position.
Dwight is going to install the three way throttle cable splitter on my MZ02 (usually used on the XE3).
I will connect the third cable to a string potentiometer, then wire the pot to an A to D input on the Enigma.
With a little calibration I should be able to the show a graph and/or a percentage of the absolute throttle position on the screen.
Not only will this provide the desired power indication, it will also provide another data point for monitoring the engine.
For example if we notice that significantly more throttle is required to hover or perform certain well known maneuvers we may have a problem with fuel, filters etc.
This comes from my old snowmobiling days (gone since moving to Florida).
My first indication that something was wrong with my machine was often reduction in power and needing more throttle to get the job done.
I don't know how useful this will really be but it sounds like fun to experiment with, I like electronics and instrumentation kinds of things anyway.
Just need to get my heli..... |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 165
Location: Melbourne, FL | Hawk,
On the subject of measuring torque, another idea is to use a strain gauge on the engine mount, you can then measure the torsion force the engine is creating against the chassis, a true measure of the engines actual power output.
A strain gauge for this purpose might be pretty pricey though, just a thought. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| Here would be a neat idea for you then if you like elctronics. Mount a riostat on the pivot point on your throttle at the engine. Only if your engine is tund properly, you can send an electric signal for throttle position to the cockpit. That will tell you how much fuel (energy) is going to the engne. In the cockpit, put a placard behind the indicator that would represent torque (0-100%). That would be anothe very simple way to measure torque. It would still be a rough estimate due to altitude and temp changeing without the mixture changing in order to make the perfect burn. If you ever move to the evinrude E-TEC's fuel injected motor, this would be perfect. |
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Mosquito Owner
XE3 1042
Posts: 337
| This sounds like a great idea! Of course, those of us with 301's will be needing another splitter.....
Skeeter
ldiebel - 2/5/2010 6:44 PM
On the subject of showing power......
I plan to experiment with measuring the absolute throttle position.
Dwight is going to install the three way throttle cable splitter on my MZ02 (usually used on the XE3).
I will connect the third cable to a string potentiometer, then wire the pot to an A to D input on the Enigma.
With a little calibration I should be able to the show a graph and/or a percentage of the absolute throttle position on the screen.
Not only will this provide the desired power indication, it will also provide another data point for monitoring the engine.
For example if we notice that significantly more throttle is required to hover or perform certain well known maneuvers we may have a problem with fuel, filters etc.
This comes from my old snowmobiling days (gone since moving to Florida).
My first indication that something was wrong with my machine was often reduction in power and needing more throttle to get the job done.
I don't know how useful this will really be but it sounds like fun to experiment with, I like electronics and instrumentation kinds of things anyway.
Just need to get my heli..... |
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Mosquito Owner
MXE 1048
Posts: 189
Location: Caloundra QLD Australia | Hey guys!
NOW we are talking!
My XE has a manifold gauge with the intention of doing just what you are talking about; measuring the power in use.
Every other piston engine heli I can think of has an MP gauge; turbines of course have both torque and temp gauges.
I think that this heli will appeal to the new commercial pilot who has 200 hours like all the other guys, but the XE owner can put another 100 hours or so, to put him ahead.
But unless he can assess power needed/available his judgemental skills will be sketchy, thus decreasing his appeal to his prospective employer.
But I have been that an MP gauge will not work on a 2-stroke. I have my ideas on that, but I might have to find some other way to measure power.
Rob |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 159
Location: Panama City Beach, Fla | The subject of this tread (Approach Techniques) seems to have gotten over to re-designing the Mosquito
Helicopter once again.
I have enjoyed the intense discussion of the subject of approaches, however some of the explanations have
gotten quite involved and a bit hard to follow. I think Mark has touched on one of the more important and easy
to follow guides when making your approaches. Regardless of the type of approach, a Shallow, Normal, Steep
or Anything in between, Marks reference to the ( Circle of Action ) is a very important visual guide. I'll not try
to impress any of you with more lengthy written discussion of this subject, however if any of you would like to
see what the Circle of Action actually looks like from cockpit of a Mosquito helicopter all you have to do is review
John Sniders Maneuvers Video. Click on the chapters on Normal Approches and Steep Approches. Now John does
not make reference to the Circle of Action but if you pay close attention to the sight picture through the windshield
of his Mosquito you will notice what Mark is refering to. His intended landing spot does not change its position on
the windshield throughout the entire approach. Everything else is moving but not the Circle of Action, it remains
at the same point all the way down. If you have trouble following that sight picture you can also use the bolts on
the side of the windshield as a reference or an aiming point.
John Sniders Maneuvers Videos is a great tool to help you learn to fly the Mosquito Helicopter and I highly
recommend it to all of you.
If your intentions are to learn to fly the Blackhawk helicopter you will need to Join The Army!
Remember Guys (Keep It Simple) Learn to fly with your senses, your feelings your surroundings. Don't
always rely on gauges to tell you what going on. (Check the seat of your pants from time to time)
Thanks
Andy |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 206
Location: tallahassee FL | Very well put Andy!!!!!!! |
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Mosquito Dealer
Texas
Posts: 160
Location: Round Rock, Texas | Ditto Andy. Well said. That is what is so much fun about flying the Mosquito.... You have to be able to fly it by the seat of your pants. The Mosquito Air makes it even more fun that way. You don't have the structure around you to help with aiming and reference. After flying Robert's Air last weekend I was reminded of how much fun flying the Mosquito Air really is. There is really nothing like it. Andy, you said it best when you coined it the "Magic Carpet Ride" because that's exactly what it is. Thanks again for letting me fly the "Harley Copter" last year. It was a real treat. |
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Member
Posts: 21
Location: Orange Park, FL | The problem I see with the "same place on the windscreen" approach is when you get high and fast and the spot starts to move down, you need to lower the collective (intuitive) and raise the nose (not intuitive). Raising the nose will make the spot move further down the windscreen instead of the desired direction (further up).The opposite occurs for low and slow. The circle of action approach entails taking into account many visual clues, in addition to the spot on the windscreen. If you are also glancing through the chin bubble (or down) and out the sides, you have a better chance of seeing the glideslope and closure you have. Sometimes, when doing a steep approach where I might lose sight of the spot occasionally below the windscreen, I will yaw the aircraft slightly or setup the appraoch a little off center so I can see the spot to the side of the panel. This also helps to keep the pitching movement from my accel/decel inputs from being misinterpretted as movement up or down on the glidslope. In short, I would say it is important to not just stare out the front window at the spot. Keep your eyes and if necessary, your head moving and scanning.
Edited by roblyman 2/7/2010 2:41 AM
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Mosquito Dealer
Texas
Posts: 160
Location: Round Rock, Texas | roblyman, I agree! That's why I say that the reference on the wind screen (if used) should only be used to start the approach. You are right, on a fast, steep approach the helicopter will be changing pitch attitude so much that the reference will not be reliable. I don't use it and I don't think I ever have. I also agree that scanning is a good idea to get additional information about rate of closure. The Mosquito has great visibility so kicking it out of trim isn't really something that helps but can still be used. It actually can hinder vision due to the structural interference between the windshield and the door openings. |
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Mosquito Owner
Posts: 551
Location: Uvalde, Texas 78801 | UH-60Pilot - 2/7/2010 7:25 PM
It actually can hinder vision due to the structural interference between the windshield and the door openings.
Unless, of course, you used your head and bought a real kit, an AIR! No stinkin window frames to hinder anything! Ok ok, I'll conceed that the "XE" linage could possibly have a very slight edge on the AIR's as far as looks may be concerned, but the differience is so minute that most can't tell the difference between the two  Some say the AIR's fly a bit better! Others don't say anything because of the fear of being publically flogged.
Alright, just trying to lighten things up a bit. This is actually some of the more interesting posts I've read in a while. Now as long as I don't have to tape something on my windshield, I'll be in fine shape
BTW, anyone heard from Brad Hale lately? He's been MIA now for a couple of weeks. He was going to come to Uvalde when Mark T did, and help us get my AIR
ready for flight. Probably on a cruise of something, you know how the rich spend their time |
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